On many older Ladue houses, the roof does not end at a plain fascia board. The eave is closed by a built-up cornice: boxed rafter tails, a fascia, a frieze or bed molding below the gutter line, and a crown molding that projects at the top. Some houses add small decorative brackets between the crown and the frieze. Most roof bids describe all of this with one word, "trim," and then the crew arrives on tear-off day to find a profile that was milled decades ago and that nobody has priced.
This page is for the homeowner who has reached the point of choosing a roofer and wants one specific fact settled before the dumpster goes down: what happens to the crown molding while the shingles come off, and whether the bid says so in writing.
What the cornice is, and where the roof stops
A cornice is the trim assembly that closes the roof edge at the wall. On a built-up version, the rafter tails are boxed, the fascia sits on them, and the frieze and crown are fastened to that box. The gutter hangers often fasten into this assembly rather than into the rafter tails alone, so the gutter line and the crown are physically connected. Pull one and you can move the other. That is why a gutter that was reset years ago may already have stressed the crown at the joints.
Shingles stop at the drip edge, and the drip edge sits against the fascia. Every shingle course at the eave has to be lifted and stripped, which means the crew works directly against the cornice for the entire run of the house. A bid that treats the crown as "trim" usually assumes it will simply come along for the ride.
Why the crew cannot treat it as ordinary trim
Tear-off crews work from the top down and from the edge in. To strip the eave, they pry up the old drip edge and pull the nails that hold it, and a careless pry bar can crack a crown, split a bracket or lift a frieze board off its fasteners. Wood that has been painted many times is brittle at the joints. A crown that has taken years of freeze and thaw at the top may already have a soft spot that does not show until someone presses on it.
St. Louis winters work on the cornice in a specific way. Ice forms at the eave, water backs up under the lowest course, and the water finds the end of the run first. The returns, where the cornice turns the corner at the front and side of the house, collect that water. Rot in the returns and at the corners above the downspouts is common on older houses, and it is often hidden under paint until the first crack opens. Photograph every return and every joint before any nail comes out, from the ground and from the ladder, and keep the photos dated.
Three ways the crown can be handled
Each approach changes the price and the finished look, so the scope should say which one applies to your house.
- Remove, store and reinstall the existing crown. This keeps the original profile and the original shadow line. It only works for pieces that are sound, so the scope should say who decides which pieces are too damaged to reuse, and what replaces them.
- Remove and replace with a stock profile. This is often simpler and easier to price, but a stock profile may not match the original shadow line or the depth of the crown. Ask for a drawing or a cut sample before the order is placed.
- Leave the crown in place and tuck the roof edge under it. This can work where the crown is sound and the drip edge can be lifted without touching the molding. The scope should say so in plain words, and should show that the new drip edge still clears the crown and does not trap water behind it.
Some Ladue houses have a combination: a sound crown on the front elevation and a rotten return on the side. A good scope handles these separately, with the front run tucked and the side returns replaced. A single line that says "crown, as needed" leaves the decision to the day of the work, when the homeowner has the least leverage.
Questions to put to each roofer
- Is the crown molding named in the scope by its approximate linear length and by its location on each elevation, or does the bid say "trim" and stop there?
- If a piece is rotten once the old shingles come off, who decides whether it is replaced, and is the replacement priced in the bid or handled as an add-on?
- Who removes the molding, and who reinstalls it? Some bids include the crew for one task and not the other, and the gap shows up after the shingles are on.
- Where will the removed pieces be stored during the job, and will they be kept out of the rain and away from foot traffic?
- Does the bid include paint on new or repaired wood, or does paint wait for a separate painter? New wood needs a dry window before it is painted, so the painter's date and the roof date should be set together, not in sequence.
- Will the crew photograph the crown before tear-off begins and again after it is reinstalled, and will those photos be in the file you receive at the end?
What to check on your own house
Before you ask any roofer for a number, walk the eave yourself with a phone. Stand across the street if you can, then move to the corners. Look for paint that has bubbled or cracked at the returns, for a gap at the joint where the crown meets the frieze, and for staining under the gutter at each downspout. Note whether the gutter sits on the crown or on the rafter tails. These are small observations, but they tell the roofer where to look first.
Then sketch the house. Mark each elevation, the length of each cornice run, every corner return, and every bracket. Send that sketch with your photos to each roofer you are considering. A bid that matches your sketch is a bid you can compare with another bid. A bid that says "trim" for every run is not a bid you can check against anything.
Keys documents damage, puts a written scope with photos and measurements in the homeowner's hands, and attends on the roof as the contractor. A cornice line in that scope is the place to see whether the crown was measured at all. If the scope has no cornice line, ask for one before you sign.
How the crown and the gutter are tied together
The gutter and the crown are the same problem from two directions. If the gutter has been overflowing for seasons, the water has been running behind the crown, and the crown is the first thing to show it. If the gutter is being replaced in the same project, the new hangers have to fasten into wood that is sound enough to hold them. A roofer who plans to reset the gutter should say where the new hangers will go, how deep they will reach into the fascia, and what happens if a hanger location lands on a rotten spot. Those answers belong in the same scope as the crown.
Downspout outlets matter too. A downspout that empties onto a bracket or into a crown joint will keep that joint wet. Ask whether the scope includes a check of the downspout outlet, and whether the outlet will be moved, extended or left as it is.
What to do with the answers
Put the crown on its own line in the comparison sheet you make from the bids. Write the approach each roofer has proposed, who does the removal and reinstallation, and whether paint is included. Then look at the blank cells. A blank cell in the crown row is a cost that has not been decided yet, and it will be decided on tear-off day. If the answers are still vague after you have asked, ask again in writing, and keep the reply. The office number is (314) 220-2333.